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THE WESTERN SOLAR PLAN IS FINALIZED. WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR WYOMING?

Where we site large-scale solar matters — and with the final draft of the Bureau of Land Management’s Western Solar Plan, we now have a useful template for proactively deciding where solar projects should (and should not!) be built on federal lands.

Back in April, we asked our supporters to engage in the public comment process for the updated Western Solar Plan, a once-in-a-generation opportunity to get solar siting right. If you submitted a comment on the draft plan, we can’t thank you enough! Because of your engagement, the final plan offers greater protections for Wyoming’s wildlife.

From draft to final, the BLM made a number of changes to the plan. Some are good, and some we’re not huge fans of. But on the whole, we’re pleased with how things shook out. Since the plan is rather hefty, we’ve compiled this guide to help you understand what it contains. (We’ll start with main takeaways, then, if you want them, we’ll dive into the nitty-gritty details.)

At the highest level, here’s what we know about the final plan:

  • The plan includes BLM lands in Wyoming. (The previous Western Solar Plan did not include Wyoming.)
  • 3.8 million acres of land in Wyoming are available for lease, or roughly 27 percent of BLM lands in the state. However, the BLM anticipates only 27,000 acres of actual development in Wyoming by 2045 to meet market demand for solar energy — roughly one percent of the total potential area available for leasing.
  • The plan limits solar development using 21 resource-based exclusion criteria including Areas of Critical Environmental Concern, threatened and endangered species habitat, and Tribal Interest Areas, among others.
  • The final plan adds significant protections for big game species. It excludes solar development from crucial winter range, parturition areas, and portions of migration corridors including high-use, stopover, and bottleneck habitat. The plan also helps clarify how new information and research could be used to update maps of big game habitat where development is not allowed. (We still have questions about how this process will work between BLM and state wildlife agencies and how frequently local land use plans will be updated.)
  • The final plan adds features to improve environmental justice considerations and community benefit agreements that WOC and others advocated for. However, we think the BLM did not adequately take into consideration Tribal perspectives and should do more to collaborate with Tribes on when and where solar is authorized, as well as how to address conflicts in priority areas for Tribal communities.
  • Areas available for solar leasing are limited to lands within 15 miles of existing or planned transmission and/or locations with previously disturbed lands.
  • The final plan excludes development on Lands with Wilderness Characteristics that have been protected in local land use plans.

The final Western Solar Plan: A deeper dive

To understand why we needed an updated Western Solar Plan, we have to begin with some context. An update has been long overdue for three key reasons: First, the cost of solar energy has plummeted nearly 90 percent over the last decade. In many places, solar is the cheapest way to add energy capacity to the grid. Second, the technology surrounding solar energy has improved significantly, making solar energy more efficient and viable in northern latitudes and over a wide range of conditions. In fact, the efficiency of solar panels has increased roughly 40 percent in the last decade. Finally, federal policy is currently promoting incentives around renewable energy and decarbonization to address concerns over greenhouse gas emissions and climate change.

Taken together, these trends have led to rapid growth in the solar industry. For perspective, solar and battery storage made up over 80 percent of new U.S. electric generation capacity in 2024 — surpassing even the most optimistic projections around solar development.

These changes point to accelerating demand for locations to site large-scale solar projects, which in turn means that we need to proactively assess where future solar development on public lands is and is not appropriate. This is why BLM’s updated plan is so important: Failing to put protective side-rails in place now to direct future development could mean losing many of the conservation, wildlife, recreation, and cultural values that are so important to Wyoming.

(If you’d like to read more about why the Western Solar Plan is our chance to meet an important moment, see our blog about the draft plan from earlier this year.)

Now that we have the context in place, what follows is WOC’s analysis of the final plan’s important parts.

BLM lands in Wyoming were included in the plan.

This was not a sure bet initially and, in fact, a number of prominent leaders in Wyoming opposed Wyoming’s inclusion. We think that including Wyoming in the new update is a good thing, as it takes some of our best habitat and intact landscapes off the table before projects are being considered.

Wyoming-specific map showing lands available for solar leasing (green) and locations where leasing will not be allowed (pink). This map does not include critical winter range exclusions for big game. Approximately 27 percent of BLM lands in Wyoming are open for leasing. (Note that BLM only anticipates 27,000 acres of actual solar development by 2045.)

The final plan combines aspects of various alternatives within the draft.

The final plan limits solar development to:

  • Areas outside of 21 key resource-based exclusion criteria. This includes exclusions for resources like Areas of Critical Environmental Concern, certain Lands with Wilderness Characteristics, Big Game Habitats, and Critical Habitat Areas for Threatened and Endangered Species. See the full table of exclusions here.
  • Areas with a slope of less than 10 percent.
  • Areas within 15 miles of existing or planned 69kW transmission or greater, and/or areas identified as previously disturbed lands, ​​which generally have diminished resource integrity based on the U.S. Geological Survey Landscape Intactness model.

By increasing the allowable distance from transmission corridors in the final plan, the overall acreage available for leasing on BLM lands in Wyoming increased substantially. The practical effect of this change would give industry more acreage to consider development on.

It’s important to note that the reasonably foreseeable development scenario has not changed — the best guess is demand for solar projects on public land in Wyoming will not exceed 27,000 acres by 2045. It’s also worth noting as a comparison number that there are more than 8 million acres of BLM land in Wyoming with existing oil and gas leasing. Table 6-1 below provides a state-by-state accounting of total lands available for application and exclusion areas.

The plan better protects big game species.

The resource exclusion criterion for big game was significantly improved to protect critical habitats and migration corridors. In the initial draft, solar development would have been allowed in migration corridors, crucial winter range, and parturition areas unless local BLM offices had their own protections in place (which is not the case for most Field Offices in Wyoming). Now, future solar development on BLM lands will be excluded in portions of big game migration corridors mapped as “high use,” migration pinch points, bottlenecks, and stopover areas, not to mention parturition areas and crucial winter range habitat. Additionally, BLM created a new “avoidance designation” for lands intersecting migration corridors mapped as “medium and low use.” This new designation would require developers to work with state wildlife agencies like the Wyoming Game and Fish Department to avoid harm to wildlife in order to proceed with proposed projects in avoidance areas.

This is a huge win and something that WOC and our allies fought hard to ensure. From the beginning, one of the most significant concerns with utility-scale solar development is its impact on wide-ranging wildlife that need open space to move freely across the landscape. The strengthening of this exclusion criterion gives us confidence that future projects will avoid situations like the one that unfolded at Sweetwater Solar, where thousands of pronghorn were pushed into a narrow road corridor because the project was built in a pathway used by the animals to access critical winter range habitat.

The plan clarifies how new information could be used.

BLM clarified the process by which new information, research, and habitat maps could be updated into the final plan as we learn more and refine our knowledge of the important movement patterns and habitat needs of wildlife. This provides a compelling incentive and opportunity to map additional migration corridors and update habitat maps for big game in the state.

Notably, a lack of mapped and published migration corridors in Wyoming reduced the amount of land designated as either “exclusion” or “avoidance” areas. Compared to some other states (like Nevada), Wyoming has a relatively small number of exclusion and avoidance areas for big game migration corridors, despite having some of the best habitat and copious data to draw on to model additional migration corridors. From our perspective, this provides another compelling reason why Wyoming must continue mapping and recognizing migration corridors, not to mention updating big game crucial winter range maps, so that this critical information can be used to better protect our state’s wildlife resources in future federal land management processes. Figure 6-3 below shows areas where solar leasing would currently be excluded and avoided based upon migration corridor data.

The plan excludes Lands with Wilderness Characteristics.

For Lands with Wilderness Characteristics, we are extremely pleased to see the BLM acknowledge the value of lands that still hold their wildness by excluding designated LWCs outright and considering all others — including those nominated by citizens — during project-level decisions. These areas are an important piece of the interconnected whole. They safeguard the ecological integrity of the greater landscape and provide meaningful opportunities for Tribal members and local communities to connect with and sustainably steward the land.

Other considerations

During the public comment period on the draft plan, WOC and the Wyoming Wilderness Association raised a number of other important issues. These were addressed (to various degrees) as programmatic design features in the plan. These included:

  • A requirement to identify whether the lands within and immediately adjacent to the proposed solar energy project have been assessed for wilderness characteristics or have been included in a citizen’s wilderness inventory or proposal.
  • Requirements around Tribal consultation considerations and the avoidance of impacts to resources and landscapes important to Tribal communities.
  • Requirements around environmental justice considerations and guidelines encouraging the use of community benefit agreements by developers.

We are still working to understand the exact implications and nuances of these requirements, especially as they relate to Tribal consultation and what mitigation looks like when impacts to Tribal resources occur. The mitigation concepts proposed in the final plan fail to recognize the place-based importance of these resources for Tribal communities. As such, mitigating impacts by guaranteeing access to a resource in a different location, or by transplanting species, misses the point of those areas themselves being important — not just the area’s plants, minerals, or animals.

Conclusion: Looking forward

All in all, BLM’s final plan shook out positively for big game species and a number of the other resources and values that are critical from a conservation perspective. Given the relatively small amount of development forecasted in Wyoming, WOC would have preferred the final alternative to be more prescriptive in limiting development to only the least impactful locations.

As we think about the future of renewable energy development, it is only going to become more important to focus on project-specific NEPA analyses to understand the local and overall cumulative effects of proposed development. Decisions made at the project level, even down to the type of fencing and ways that solar panels are mounted, can have a huge impact on the environment and wildlife. Similarly, as with other forms of development, careful attention needs to be given to lifecycle considerations such as impacts from raw material extraction, component recycling, and reclamation for utility scale solar projects. Our commitment to Wyoming and our supporters is to scrutinize these projects as they’re proposed and take action when changes or improvements are necessary.

The renewable energy boom is coming, and one of the biggest challenges we face is the need to simultaneously reduce our carbon emissions to address a changing climate, while also protecting the best of the habitat and natural resources we have left. Locally, these goals can find themselves at odds, despite the fact that globally, they are largely the same.

In this transition, it’s important to recognize that Wyoming sits in a place of abundance — for its renewable energy potential and its outstanding habitat, recreation, and cultural resources. With so much to lose, we must proceed carefully and thoughtfully. The Western Solar Plan is a step in the right direction, but much more work still needs to be done to ensure that all large scale energy development is done responsibly with both environment and people in mind.

Header image: Bureau of Land Management | Flickr CC

Wyoming Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Just Compensation for Solar Owners

Powder River Basin Resource Council & Wyoming Outdoor Council welcome the opportunity for more energy freedom in Wyoming

 In a precedent-setting decision issued last week, the Wyoming Supreme Court struck down High Plains Power’s policy to cut by approximately 80 percent the compensation paid to rooftop solar owners for the power they produce and share with the electric grid. The decision now forces the Wyoming Public Service Commission to reconsider what is a just and reasonable rate to compensate solar owners.

Had the PSC’s approval of High Plains Power’s policy been upheld, it would have negatively impacted hundreds of existing and future solar homeowners and businesses and the roughly dozen Wyoming small businesses that install solar panels across the state, providing jobs and revenue for Wyoming’s future.

“Most businesses and homeowners invest in on-site solar generation to gain a degree of energy independence, a source of clean energy, AND a reasonable financial return on investment. Today’s decision helps to preserve a simple and fair compensation structure for future solar investors and, most importantly, prevents HPP from reducing the compensation expected by their members already using solar,” said Scott Kane, co-owner of Lander-based Creative Energies, the company responsible for installing many of the rooftop solar systems within the High Plains service area. 

The Court struck down the PSC’s 2023 decision authorizing High Plains Power to reduce the compensation it gives to customers who generate solar power and send it to the grid. Wyoming’s net metering statute requires utilities to credit customers for the excess solar power they provide at the same retail rate they pay for the electricity they consume from the grid. However, High Plains switched to compensating net-metered customers for their excess generation by paying them on a monthly basis at a much lower rate, called avoided cost. This change meant that customers could no longer roll over generation credits, dramatically reducing the financial benefit of having solar panels.

Not wanting the precedent of High Plains Power’s action to stand or influence other utilities, and seeking to represent the interests of their membership, Powder River Basin Resource Council and Wyoming Outdoor Council intervened in the PSC proceedings reviewing High Plains Power’s proposal in 2022 and later appealed the PSC’s split 2–1 decision to the Wyoming Supreme Court.

“We’re pleased that the Wyoming Supreme Court has ruled that the High Plains and the PSC actions were in violation of the law. If left to stand, it would have paved the path for other electric utilities to enact similar policies rendering customers’ solar investments much less economic and gravely threatening Wyoming’s growing solar industry,” said Bob LeResche, Powder River Basin Resource Council Board Member, and solar-owner member of the rural electric cooperative Powder River Energy Corporation near Clearmont, Wyoming. 

“We are grateful that the terms on which we chose to make an investment in a solar system will be maintained. We hope that the rooftop solar industry will continue to grow, providing more jobs and more distributed electricity,” stated Elizabeth Aranow, a High Plains Power solar owning customer.

BREAKING: Governor’s task force recommendations shape improved public lands management in newly released Rock Springs plan

August 22, 2024 – Today, the Bureau of Land Management released its proposed Rock Springs Resource Management Plan, outlining management direction for almost 3.6 million acres of public lands in southwest Wyoming. The proposed plan clearly reflects and incorporates feedback from tens of thousands of public comments and input from local stakeholders, including the task force Gov. Mark Gordon convened in late 2023.

The Wyoming Outdoor Council and Wyoming Wilderness Association both served on the governor’s task force alongside representatives with interests in oil and gas, grazing, energy production, motorized recreation, sportsmen groups, and trona industry. The task force also included elected officials from communities in Sweetwater County as well as the Speaker of the House and President of the Senate for the Wyoming Legislature. This group developed more than 100 consensus-based recommendations, supported by all stakeholders, to improve the plan and delivered these recommendations to the BLM during the agency’s public comment period.

The BLM took the task force’s consensus-based comments seriously. The proposed Rock Springs Resource Management Plan reflects task force recommendations including maintaining access for the local trona mining industry, retaining the OHV play area in parts of the Killpecker Sand Dunes, and protecting the unique natural and cultural values of Boar’s Tusk.

In response, WOC and WWA issued the following statements:

“We’re pleased to see the BLM incorporated public feedback and input from Gov. Gordon’s task force into a plan that serves local communities, iconic landscapes, and wildlife,” said Alec Underwood, program director for the Wyoming Outdoor Council. “Among other important agreements, the task force reached consensus on the need to protect gold-standard habitat and other significant natural values in the Big Sandy Foothills and Northern Red Desert, such as Boar’s Tusk. It’s encouraging to see the BLM’s responsiveness, as well as the agency’s efforts to build on the task force’s strong foundation where agreement wasn’t reached, as they did for the Big Sandy Foothills. While the plan could be improved — protections for the iconic big game migration corridors in the region, for example, fall short of the mark — we appreciate that the agency worked diligently to ensure that updated management direction will conserve some of our country’s best remaining wildlife habitat, while also maintaining all of the unique recreational opportunities found within the field office.”

“It is a testament to the dedication of all who love and care for the lands within the Rock Springs Field Office that the proposed plan includes some robust, durable, and reasonable conservation measures for the Northern Red Desert and Big Sandy Foothills. We applaud the BLM for making the hard decisions necessary to ensure these wild and working landscapes continue to thrive for future generations to use and enjoy,” said Lauren Marsh, BLM program manager for Wyoming Wilderness Association. “We are, however, disappointed that some key provisions in the draft RMP were not carried forward in the proposed plan, namely recognizing Lands with Wilderness Characteristics (LWCs) and important protections for the hoodoo-studded wildlands surrounding Adobe Town. Nevertheless, we appreciate the willingness of the BLM to take to heart the concerns of local Wyoming residents as expressed through public comment and recommendations from Governor Gordon’s task force. What you see reflected in the plan for the northern portion of the Field Office — and taskforce recommendations — is how much Wyomingites value wildlife and the wildlands that support them, even under the demands of a largely extraction-based economy.”

What happens next?

The issuance of the Proposed Resource Management Plan and Final Environmental Impact Statement initiates a 30-day public protest period and 60-day governor’s consistency review. The agency will finalize the plan after resolving issues raised in these processes.

To stay up-to-date on this process, make sure you’re signed up to receive emails from WOC. As we dive into the plan and examine how it will impact the wildlife, cultural resources, and other values of the Red Desert, we’ll keep you informed.

Read more about the plan in WOC’s joint release with The Wilderness Society.

For more information, contact:

Carl Fisher, Executive Director, Wyoming Outdoor Council, (801) 910-7487,
carl@wyomingoutdoorcouncil.org

Lauren Marsh, BLM Program Manager, Wyoming Wilderness Association, (205) 807-4783, lauren@wildwyo.org

Max Owens, Communications Manager, Wyoming Outdoor Council, (307) 488-3451, max@wyomingoutdoorcouncil.org

Story Behind the Photo: ROSE FRY

WOC’s 2025 Calendar Contest is live! Join Rose and other photographers by submitting your photos of Wyoming’s lands, wildlife, and people. You can enter your photos via Instagram or email. To submit your photo(s) via Instagram, you must have a public Instagram account so that we’re able to view your submission. Upload your photo(s) and add the hashtag #OurWyoming.

To submit your photo(s) via email, send your photo(s) to max@wyomingoutdoorcouncil.org. For more information about the contest, visit our calendar contest page.


A fearless leap. Arms stretched wide and feet tucked beneath, in defiance of gravity. One soaring, weightless moment — before meeting the sparkling waters below.

Rose Fry’s photo of a young swimmer jumping off a dock at Alcova Reservoir perfectly captures the exuberance and simple joy of summer. If you’re keeping up with your Wyoming Outdoor Council calendar, you’ve seen this photo gracing the month of August. This is the month of unrelenting heat, the dog days of summer, when nothing is more enticing than a dip in cool water. This is the season when Wyoming families like Rose’s are drawn to water — whether at Alcova, chilly alpine lakes, or the many streams and rivers that wend their way across the state.

A boy jumps off a dock into the blue waters of a lake with vegetated hills in the background
Image: Rose Fry

The young swimmer in Rose’s photo is her grandson, Maddocks. While the image captures a single, delighted moment (you can almost feel Maddocks’s shock upon plunging into the water), for Rose, it evokes a deep, generational history: Her memories, and photographs, chronicle a lifetime spent enjoying Wyoming’s outdoors with her family.

Born in Gillette but raised in Caser, Rose’s adventures outside began with frequent trips to the high country. “Growing up, our family had a small little cabin up in the Bighorns, kind of out in the boonies,” she says. “We went up there all the time, and we would fish and run around, and we sure enjoyed it.”

Rose has been visiting Alcova Reservoir on warm summer days since she was a child. Later, when she and her husband had started their own family, she passed along her love of the outdoors to her three daughters. And now, she enjoys sharing days at Alcova with her grandchildren, who often come up to visit from Colorado.

It feels special, Rose says, to leave cell service and other distractions behind, and just enjoy the fun of being outside together, with people you love. The day she snapped the photo that ended up in the calendar, the whole family had taken leap after leap off the dock — sometimes holding hands, sometimes aiming to land on an inflatable unicorn, which the kids had playfully nicknamed Susie. “It was just the most fun,” Rose says. “We were just having a ball together.”

Capturing Wyoming’s magic through the viewfinder

For Rose, a longtime hobbyist photographer, capturing images is all about seeking out special moments — and being prepared when they arrive. “The number one rule in photography is to be there. If you’re not there, you’re not going to get the photo,” she says.

Rose’s photography runs the gamut, from images of family, landscapes, and wildlife, to the occasional photoshoot for graduating seniors. After 27 years working for the Wyoming Department of Family Services and Child Protection, Rose recently retired — which means more time to adventure and focus on her photography. Most recently, she supported a bike ride across the Sierra Madres and Snowy Range as part of the annual Tour de Wyoming. (Her sister is the tour’s director, and Rose always enjoys the chance to help her out — and snap plenty of photos!)

While the Sierra Madres and Snowies provide close-to-home photo magic, Rose travels to Yellowstone several times a year to explore the park with a group of photographer friends. It was there, on a snowcoach photography trip, that she experienced one of her favorite moments behind the camera. The group of photographers came upon the Wapiti Lake wolf pack, a group of 18 wolves. For hours, through their telephoto lenses, the photographers watched the wolves play. “After that, I was on a high for a week,” Rose laughs. “It was just amazing.”

But, she added, there’s so much more to nature photography than the large and charismatic mammals that people tend to focus on. From small critters, to birds, to the many overlooked subjects in between, the opportunities to capture beautiful images are boundless, once you start looking for them.

“I have so much fun taking my photos,” Rose says, “but even better is being able to share them with others.”

This year’s contest: Celebrating Wyoming “roots”

If you’d like to share your own Wyoming photos, now’s your chance! Join Rose and other photographers by submitting your shots to the Wyoming Outdoor Council’s calendar contest. In this year’s contest, we’re looking for photos that explore what it means to be “rooted” in Wyoming.

Perhaps, like Rose, your Wyoming “roots” are the multiple generations of family members that have found significance in Wyoming’s outdoors. Or maybe your roots involve a connection to Wyoming’s abundant wildlife, or to a landscape you hold dear. Whatever being rooted in this wonderfully diverse state means to you, we’re looking forward to your help in telling the story of “Our Wyoming,” our ongoing calendar contest theme.

Selected photographers will have their work printed in the 2025 calendar, receive a cash prize, and have their winning photos displayed in an exhibit — exhibit details coming soon.

Photos may be submitted via Instagram or email. To submit via Instagram, simply add the hashtag #OurWyoming. You must have a public account, so that we’re able to view your submission. To submit via email, send your photos to max@wyomingoutdoorcouncil.org.

Learn more and view all terms and conditions here. Happy photographing!

SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT ON STATE OIL AND GAS LEASING: DIRECTORS’ MESSAGES ON RECENT PRESS, PT. 2 OF 2

Recent press concerning the Wyoming Outdoor Council’s efforts to protect critical pronghorn migratory habitat has caused a bit of a stir in certain circles — and we’d like to set the record straight with an important message for the WOC community and other Wyomingites.

In this second part of a two-part message, WOC’s program director, Alec Underwood, responds to biased reporting and industry perspectives on WOC’s involvement in the July 2023 oil and gas lease sale, and lays out the need for reforms. If you haven’t already, be sure to read Part 1: On the Media, in which executive director Carl Fisher lays out this recent experience with the media in greater detail.

Setting the Record Straight on State Oil and Gas Leasing

There’s that common saying, that wildlife don’t know political or human-made boundaries. The complicated matrix of Wyoming land ownership can vex people, too — making it all the more important that we work together to build common-sense plans and policies to protect our uniquely Wyoming values.

Wyoming is not immune to major challenges for wildlife and occasionally, we see the threat of short-sighted development that warrants bold action to prevent it. Recent articles penned by Cowboy State Daily reporter Pat Maio paint a misleading picture of WOC’s involvement in state oil and gas lease sales, while taking as fact the lone perspective of industry. In an effort to provide transparency and factual information to the public, we at the Wyoming Outdoor Council would like to set the record straight. 

Though we are not against oil and gas leasing or other forms of industrial development, most people can agree that some places are just too special to develop. That was the case with ‘parcel 194’ in the Office of State Lands and Investments’ July 2023 oil and gas lease sale. The 640-acre tract of land is located squarely in a bottleneck portion of the Sublette Pronghorn migration corridor, a pinch-point that is vital to the herd’s seasonal movements.

Many Wyomingites know the story of how nearly 50 percent of the Sublette herd perished during the winter of 2023 — dropping from an estimated 43,000 animals to 24,000. That’s why we were alarmed when the state offered a development lease directly in this incredibly sensitive habitat for pronghorn. After raising our concerns with state leadership, the auction went forward with parcel 194 included, and without any stipulations in place to protect migratory big game. Left with no other options and the threat of future development in this sensitive habitat, we decided to participate in the oil and gas lease auction. 

Parcels offered in OSLI’s July 2023 oil and gas lease sale, overlaid with migratory data for the Sublette Pronghorn herd. Each yellow line represents a single radio-collared animal’s journey between summer and winter range. Parcels offered are bordered in blue; parcel 194 is visible at the bottom of the image. (Image: The Wilderness Society)

We did not take this action lightly nor is it a standard practice for WOC. In our eyes, our bid was an effort to demonstrate that we could still produce revenue for our state while also preserving important wildlife habitat. It was not an effort to “drive up prices” or start a “bidding war,” as falsely mischaracterized in Cowboy State Daily’s articles. Regardless, we were not the high bidder for the parcel, and we turned our efforts toward the State Board of Land Commissioners, urging them not to issue the lease. 

Despite having the support of both OSLI and the Wyoming Game and Fish Department for a new protective stipulation for the parcel, and hearing from hundreds of Wyomingites who wrote in opposition to leasing the ground in the first place, the Board issued the lease as-is — without any considerations for migratory pronghorn. 

The story of parcel 194 represents a larger issue within the system of state trust lands: There is no clear alternative to protect key habitat or other values from development, while also respecting the mandate to provide revenue for state trust beneficiaries. Given there is great interest from the public in how state lands are used (think Casper Mountain or Munger Mountain), we hope our state leaders are listening and will commit to solving this very real problem.

The recent changes to defining “qualified bidders” in state oil and gas lease sales brings into question how the Board of Land Commissioners makes decisions on state lands leases. Take for example that according to testimony from OSLI in a February 2024 legislative committee hearing, only 27 percent of state land oil and gas leases ever make it to production. Does that sound like a system that is fulfilling the Board’s constitutional charge of optimizing revenue?

Also important to note, the Board has full discretion in their duty to protect and care for all state lands This includes the ability to withdraw lands to protect economic or environmental interests. In addition to what conservation groups may be willing to pay for protecting a parcel, what is the long-term value of protecting the most sensitive habitat for thousands of migrating pronghorn?

The Wyoming Outdoor Council has always been committed to finding common-sense solutions to any issue that we work on. That’s why we’ve been calling for increased screening for conservation conflicts before sensitive habitat is leased, as well as urging state leaders and OSLI to develop a formal conservation leasing program. We believe the state can, and should, do better to address these known conflicts with other values.

Oil and gas production on state lands is undoubtedly a primary driver of revenue for our schools and other public institutions, and we respect that. But that shouldn’t preclude us from discovering new avenues to conserve important habitat on state lands and monetize them for the beneficiaries in a sustainable manner.

Using a word recently penned to describe our advocacy, the real “shenanigans” being played are by those who, on occasion, would rather sell out our wildlife for short-term gains. Rest assured, we’ll keep seeking solutions and advocating for conservation of the things that make Wyoming such a special place. We invite anyone who cares about healthy landscapes, clean air, clean water, and wildlife to join us in those efforts.

Alec Underwood is the program director for the Wyoming Outdoor Council. He resides in Lander.

Banner Image: © Scott Copeland Images

YOU REALLY CAN’T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ: DIRECTORS’ MESSAGES ON RECENT PRESS, PT. 1 OF 2

Recent press concerning the Wyoming Outdoor Council’s efforts to protect critical pronghorn migratory habitat has caused a bit of a stir in certain circles — and we’d like to set the record straight with an important message for the WOC community and other Wyomingites.

In this first part of a two-part message, WOC’s executive director, Carl Fisher, lays out a recent experience we had with the media. Be sure to also read Part 2: On the Ground, in which program director Alec Underwood responds substantively on issues concerning parcel 194 and needed reforms for leasing of state lands.

You really can’t believe everything you read

For one Wyoming media outlet, the state’s Fourth of July celebrations must have fallen short,  because it decided to set off some fireworks of its own. Unfortunately, their bombastic display was itself pretty short on substance — being composed instead of the sorts of fictions that only exist in the imagination. As such, the Wyoming Outdoor Council was the undeserving recipient of what you might describe as an industry hit job. The result? WOC will no longer respond to media inquiries from Cowboy State Daily, until trust can be restored and these issues resolved. 

The issue erupted around a well-known news story from last year, about WOC going to great lengths to protect a state parcel within the Sublette Pronghorn migration corridor — including bidding on parcel 194. Subsequently, in this past Legislative Budget Session, an industry-initiated bill, HB141, directed modification of administrative rules defining what constitutes a “qualified bidder” in state oil and gas lease sales, and directed the Office of State Land and Investments to develop criteria for qualified bidders. The bill was passed and signed by the governor on March 8, 2024. From what we can tell, Governor Gordon recently put through an emergency order in an effort to enact the legislated policy (which had yet to take effect), due to pressure from industry and fear-mongering that “billionaires” and “activists” would wreak havoc on the auction. WOC, for one, had no intentions of this, and the media firestorm created by the Petroleum Association and Kirkwood Cos. could have been resolved with a simple phone call, as we frequently do for them.

For years, WOC and other wildlife and conservation organizations have had concerns about development of land, which lies directly in the path of migrating Sublette Pronghorn. These concerns became urgent in July 2023, when parcel 194 was put on the auction block for leasing. WOC did, in fact, legally bid on parcel 194 in last year’s July auction. WOC is not fundamentally against leasing for oil and gas, or the auction process for that matter. Just as oil and gas wishes there was better guidance around what constitutes a qualified bidder, we believe the state has an obligation to develop better guidance around which state parcels should be leased for development, and which should be protected for their importance for wildlife and other irreplaceable environmental attributes. 

According to Cowboy State Daily, WOC “duped” oil and gas companies during this auction and our sole intent was to drive up costs, play shenanigans, and start a bidding war. The titles and subtitles of the articles were bad, really bad, and the accusations of the reporter about WOCs intentions were malicious. Here are the reporter’s own words: “There’s a lot of disdain, I’m finding out, for the Wyoming Outdoor Council because they’ve gotten to the point now where, I mean, theoretically, you know, if you’re taking leases out of the hands of oil and gas companies, that hurts education in Wyoming, right? Because a lot of that money, that royalty money goes directly to education.” We think Cowboy State Daily was duped into carrying water for industry in penning these biased and one-sided articles. The reporter’s own bias clearly comes through in his words.

Over the course of several days (July 4–8), four articles (three written and one video) were published. As the situation developed, I had a very pleasant call with the editor of Cowboy State Daily, who ultimately agreed to modify the headlines, bylines, and add an accompanying editor’s note, and I look forward to working with them over the coming weeks and months to build trust. On one hand, I sympathize: The issues we and media outlets work on are complex and require a level of policy wonkiness I wouldn’t wish upon most people. Expeditiously translating these into the public vernacular is more an art than a science. On the other, it is the job of the media to report the facts, and Cowboy State Daily is, as its name implies, a daily — meaning the damaging and false narrative that was perpetuated is impossible to unsee. I remind my staff that you can’t un-ring a bell, and that it’s virtually impossible to put a bullet back into the barrel. Honesty and integrity are vital to our kindling of the public trust and our way of accomplishing our mission.

The irony is that Cowboy State Daily’s accusations lack basic understanding of the system that is set up to fund schools and a dozen or so other entities that benefit Wyoming citizens. And to put a bid in during an auction naturally increases the cost for the next person. We’d welcome Pat Maio, Pete Obermueller, and Steve Degenfelder to any livestock auction in the state to show that this is common practice — it’s how auctions work. Further, if another energy company offered up $5 when the last bid was $3, you’d say they were “outbid.” Cowboy State Daily stated that WOC “duped” them. Even the Office of State Land and Investment acknowledged we did nothing wrong. So, it appears the energy industry concocted a media strategy to drag WOC publicly, and Cowboy State Daily took the bait — hook, line and sinker.

Pronghorn and natural gas infrastructure (Image: Theo Stein / USFWS / FlickrCC)

Our intentions in bidding on parcel 194 were two-fold. First, we wanted to protect critical habitat in a migration bottleneck. Second, we sought to demonstrate that conservation interests and values could monetize state lands for beneficiaries. WOC showed up with real money over three times the prior bid. We were proud to try, and sad we failed — not for ourselves, but for the Sublette Pronghorn herd. And at the end of the day, the beneficiaries of state land leases won the day, as they do at any competitive auction that generates revenue for critical programs. Let’s talk about what royalties could and should emerge from a conservation lease. 

So, there is no mechanism for conservation leasing and a rule was just passed that clarifies who can bid on oil and gas lease sales. The amount of bellyaching and press that accompanies state protection of the oil and gas honeyhole — which is now less competitive — is pretty extraordinary. If you want to really generate some revenue for Wyoming’s beneficiaries, it’s time to make lease sales competitive again, and allow a diversity of monied interests to vie for these parcels, be it for energy, conservation, recreation, or one of Wyoming’s many other values in the land. The proof is right there in the pudding: They wanted to get it for $3/acre, we went to $18. Are we promoting auctions for the beneficiaries, or fire sales on Wyoming’s landscapes? We believe we can lease, monetize and protect.

Here’s my promise to the state and energy developers like Kirkwood Cos.: If they’re willing to give up the lease and protect the bottleneck, we’ll cut ’em a check, because we don’t believe you can put a price on the viability of this herd. We get it, energy development is critical to Wyoming, but so too are our wildlife, our water and air, how we manage and lease our land, and for whom. Human and natural systems are complex. Our solutions should not oversimplify the challenges, or else we’re shifting burdens to something else, sometimes unknowingly, but the worst of us do it knowingly and for our own benefit.

At the Wyoming Outdoor Council, we welcome your questions and opinions. As executive director, I encourage them. Your inquiries and ideas (whether from members, partners or media) improve our work. We work to answer them expeditiously, but if you don’t get an answer immediately, we respectfully request that you not fabricate an answer for us. Instead, politely try again, we’ll in turn, reciprocate. We will work to be solutions-oriented, innovative, not positional, pragmatic members of the communities to which we belong and call home.

We felt compelled to share this story because we don’t believe it to be a one-off. It was for me here at WOC, but I’ve heard a number of stories from within and beyond our organization. I look forward to straightening things out with Cowboy State Daily, and frankly with Steve Degenfelder and Pete Obermueller. For more information on what WOC did at the July 2023 lease sale on parcel 194 and what our motivations were, it’s important to read program director Alec Underwood’s piece On the Ground: Setting the Record Straight on State Oil and Gas Leasing.

Carl Fisher is the executive director for the Wyoming Outdoor Council, a statewide organization committed to protecting Wyoming’s environment and quality of life now, and for future generations. Our environment includes land, water, air, wildlife, vegetation, cultural resources, and people — past, present and future.

Banner image: © Scott Copeland Images

SOS: Save our sage-grouse and the places they call home

Your voice makes a difference! Will you urge the Bureau of Land Management to take assertive action to save the Greater sage-grouse and Wyoming’s unmatched sagebrush habitat? Find suggested talking points to help you write your comment below.

It’s no secret that the Greater sage-grouse, a symbol of the West’s sweeping sagebrush landscapes, is imperiled. Dire statistics on habitat loss and dwindling populations — echoed across studies and countless articles — paint a sobering picture for the beloved bird:

“Remaining sagebrush covers less than half its historic extent.”

“We are losing 1.3 million acres of sagebrush annually.” 

“Sage-grouse populations have declined 80% since 1965.”

“Greater sage-grouse numbers have been cut almost in half over the past 20 years.”

From the heart of sagebrush country in Wyoming, where the ravages of invasive annual grasses and wildfire have yet to create the mass devastation they have in places like Nevada, it can be hard to comprehend how precarious the situation has become. But unfortunately, Wyoming is not immune to the threats eating away at sage-grouse populations and their habitats. Our state stewards the lion’s share of the world’s remaining sage-grouse and sagebrush — all the more reason to confront these threats head-on.

Of course, Western states have worked collaboratively for years to counteract threats and stave off an endangered species listing (read more here), but it’s clear more needs to be done to support sage-grouse. Fortunately, the Bureau of Land Management is now in the process of updating sage-grouse management plans across the whole of the bird’s range. What does this process mean for us? It means we have a chance to encourage strong action from the agency that manages more sage-grouse habitat than any other, including about 18 million acres right here in Wyoming.

The sagebrush steppe is home to a rich tapestry of over 300 species. How the BLM manages sagebrush habitat has far-reaching implications for an entire ecosystem of plants and animals that need our help, including pronghorn, mule deer, pygmy rabbits, ferruginous hawks, sage thrashers, parasol buckwheat…. The list goes on! As go the sage-grouse, so go our Western rangelands and sagebrush dependent species — which is why it’s imperative the BLM take assertive action to protect sage-grouse and shore up the best remaining sagebrush habitat with this plan.

We can all play a role in guiding the agency to do just that. The BLM is accepting public comments through June 13, and your comments have the power to shape the final plan the BLM adopts.

Will you take action today by urging the BLM to protect irreplaceable sage-grouse habitat in Wyoming? Your comments can be brief, but be sure to share your personal connection to sage-grouse and the broader Wyoming sagebrush biome. We’ve also shared some suggested talking points below to help you write your comment.

Deadline: June 13, 2024

In addition to sharing your personal connection to sage-grouse and the sagebrush ecosystem in Wyoming, you can also can urge the BLM do the following:

  • Grant Wyoming’s irreplaceable sage-grouse habitats the strongest protections. Wyoming is home to over a third of the world’s sage-grouse population because it contains the best remaining habitat. Chief among these, the Golden Triangle in southwest Wyoming boasts the densest populations of sage-grouse on the planet. The unmatched habitat in the Golden Triangle should be granted the strongest possible protections.
  • Direct development away from healthy habitat. There are many demands on BLM lands, but there is also ample acreage available to meet those demands. Infrastructure and energy development should be directed outside of Priority Habitat Management Areas to ensure sage-grouse are afforded the quality habitat they need to thrive.
  • Rely on the best available science to guide management decisions. Efforts to conserve the sage-grouse and its habitat can best be achieved by taking advantage of the latest research and science. The final management plans should lean heavily on the wealth of new data available to allow nimble, adaptive management responses to aberrant declines in sage-grouse populations across jurisdictional boundaries.
  • Maintain gene flow and habitat connectivity. Wyoming has the most robust population of remaining sage-grouse, but we shouldn’t keep all our eggs in that one basket. Critical connectivity areas, on the Montana border in northeast Wyoming and on the Utah border in southwest Wyoming, must remain open to allow for gene flow and dispersal between Wyoming’s populations and those in neighboring states.
  • Take bold action to conserve the habitat sage-grouse rely on. Western states, federal agencies, and private partners have been working together for over a decade to halt sage-grouse population declines, yet population indicators show we are losing this bird across its broader range. Because of this, stronger conservation measures should be adopted at every turn when weighing various management actions.

Wyoming is home to the largest, healthiest remaining swaths of sagebrush on the planet and your local perspective on how this habitat should be managed matters! Send your comment today urging the BLM to take assertive action to save the Greater sage-grouse and Wyoming’s unmatched sagebrush habitat.

Thank you for standing up for sage-grouse and all the creatures they share the steppe with.

Enhancing Protections for the Sage-Grouse: A Pivotal Moment for Conservation

This opinion piece was originally published in the Casper Star Tribune on May 8, 2024 and is republished here with permission. See the original op-ed here.

In June 2007 then Wyoming Governor Dave Freudenthal called on the leaders of Wyoming’s industries, non-governmental organizations and government agencies to gather in Casper for his Sage Grouse Summit. It was an event he hosted and moderated on the stage at Krampert Theatre at Casper College flanked by Directors of BLM Wyoming, Wyoming Game and Fish Department, and the Wyoming Wildlife and Natural Resource Trust.

Freudenthal didn’t mince words, “The scientific picture is clear,” he said. “We need to roll up our sleeves and develop a plan to protect and restore core sage grouse habitat. We have a narrow window of opportunity to protect the grouse and prevent it from being listed as an endangered species,”

These words catalyzed policy-making efforts in Wyoming, often mirrored in other states, which were then largely incorporated into rangewide plans approved by the BLM and USFS in 2015. Cumulatively these plans provided the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service with the basis to determine the Greater Sage-Grouse was not warranted for listing under the Endangered Species Act. Unfortunately, the plans developed in 2015 were never fully implemented.

After a 33-year career with the Wyoming Game and Fish Department, the last 15 years of which were as the state’s sage-grouse coordinator, I learned that this is about much more than just a bird. The problems associated with a breakdown in the health of sagebrush country resulting from massive wildfires, invasive plants like cheatgrass, woody species expansion, and human infrastructure and disturbance impacts all of us, here in Wyoming and across the West. These lands underpin the economies of our rural communities.

Using satellite imagery we’ve recently learned that we’re losing 1.3 million acres of functioning sagebrush habitat every year. And because the bird depends on healthy sagebrush habitat, the rangewide population of sage-grouse has declined 80 percent since 1965 and half of that decline has happened since 2002. Many of Wyoming’s populations have suffered less than those in some other states thanks to our soils and climate being better suited to growing sagebrush than other plants. And there have been short-term increases in some populations over the last two years thanks to less drought. But over the long-term all populations have declined in spite of the massive and well-intended efforts undertaken to prevent the need to list the species as threatened or endangered.

So, almost two decades after Governor Freudenthal convened stakeholders in Casper, the window to ensure a future for the bird is even narrower. But we have now an opportunity to course correct and realize a healthier future for this ecosystem. The BLM, which oversees 69 million acres of sage-grouse habitat across 10 states, and 18 million acres of land in the Cowboy State, is currently updating the prior plans using new science and input from its partners.

As I review the plan and discuss the issues with former colleagues I’ve come to the conclusion that it is now imperative that all of our collaborative conservation efforts shift from a sage-grouse focus to a sagebrush biome focus in order to more effectively address the threats facing not only sage-grouse but the entire ecosystem and those species, including human users, reliant on it. I implore the BLM to better incorporate this concept into their decision document.

Paramount to any plan must be a commitment to transparency and collaboration in managing the sage-grouse habitat. Open data sharing across administrative boundaries is essential in fostering an inclusive environment where scientists, policy makers, and the public can access and contribute to the ecological data that guide management decisions. This approach not only enhances the trust and cooperation among stakeholders but also strengthens the scientific basis for those decisions and provides defensible evidence of the successes and failures of management actions. With sound data incorporated into adaptive management tools like the Targeted Annual Warning System outlined in the draft plan, managers can quickly respond to threats such as habitat degradation or sudden population declines.

A male Greater sage-grouse with puffed-up chest in sagebrush landscape

Finally, there are some relatively intact landscapes that rise above others in terms of their value to sage-grouse and associated species. I support efforts to secure the most effective protections for these “best of the best” areas which are resistant to impacts like invasive species and resilient in their ability to return to good habitat after an impact such as wildfire. They are the cornerstones upon which the survival of the sage-grouse depends. Irreplaceable places, such as the Golden Triangle in western Wyoming, have such high biological value that these should have the highest level of protections.

The current proposal by the BLM to update its sage-grouse management plans is an important step forward. By focusing on strategic habitat management, implementing open data practices and advanced adaptive management tools, we can forge a sustainable path for the sage-grouse. This approach will not only benefit the bird but also the myriad other species and human communities that rely on a healthy sagebrush ecosystem. It’s a chance to reaffirm our commitment to conserving a vital part of our natural heritage thereby ensuring that we hand these natural resources in good condition to future generations.

Have questions about the BLM’s updated sage-grouse management plans? Send us an email or write a comment below.

Images: © Scott Copeland Images

A wildlife legacy to uphold

IMAGINE THIS: It’s spring in Wyoming’s Red Desert, and daybreak unfolds around you. As the sun crests the horizon and illuminates mile upon mile of open sagebrush country, the songbirds’ dawn chorus reaches its crescendo. Sage thrashers and Brewer’s sparrows sing their hearts out. At intervals, the resonant “wups” of displaying Greater sage-grouse join in. Far in the distance, bands of mule deer amble along a well-worn game trail, browsing their way towards summer pasture as the snows recede. A pair of ferruginous hawks wheel overhead in the brightening sky.

Image: ©Scott Copeland Images

It’s a scene that has played out largely unchanged for millenia. Whether today, 100 years ago, or 10,000 years ago, people have experienced the vastness and natural bounty of the Red Desert. These days, as wildlife and the lands they rely on are increasingly whittled into the margins, fewer and fewer places on Earth can offer the same. The Red Desert’s immense territory of sagebrush is a precious thing, supporting groups of species you can’t find many places in North America anymore. It is worth our time and toil to keep it whole and healthy for those who come after us.

Thankfully, we have a brief opportunity to make a big impact. With the revision of the Rock Springs Resource Management Plan by the Bureau of Land Management, the managers who oversee land use in the Red Desert are reassessing everything. The agency will carefully weigh public comments as it decides how best to manage these lands for decades to come. If we want to uphold the Red Desert’s extraordinary wildlife legacy, now is the time to speak up in favor of management directives that will help conserve the area’s exceptional natural resources.

Image: Ken Driese

The BLM is choosing between management actions that will make a real difference to the wildlife that depend on these lands for their survival. Whether you want to see the world’s longest mule deer migration persist, provide desert elk with safe birthing grounds, ensure better nest success for hawks and eagles, or see the most densely populated Greater sage-grouse habitat on the planet protected, your input during this process is critical. With foresight and careful management, generations of people and animals yet to come will be able to experience the Red Desert much the same as those who came before. The opportunity to make that careful, balanced management a reality is here — and it is up to us to speak to the values we hold dear on this landscape.


The Bureau of Land Management is accepting public comment on the Rock Springs draft Resource Management Plan through January 17. To make a comment, visit our Red Desert action page. To learn more about provisions in the plan relating to wildlife, don’t hesitate to reach out to me via email.

Q&A: An Eagle-Eye View of the Red Desert

In Wyoming’s Red Desert, the necessity of truly big-picture, holistic thinking around conservation advocacy is on full display. For one, it’s home to big game herds that require intact habitat throughout the length of migration corridors that span hundreds of miles. For another, it’s a place that has been stewarded by people for millennia, whose descendents are still here — and whose voices are critical for any conversations about how this land should be managed.

While obstacles to this kind of big-picture thinking are many, the sheer scale of the landscape presents a unique challenge: At more than a half-million acres, how do you wrap your mind around an area the size of the Red Desert?

Recently, Tribal Engagement Coordinator Big Wind Carpenter worked with EcoFlight, a Colorado-based organization, to share a bigger-picture perspective of the desert … from high above, in a small 6-seater propeller plane!

During the flights, Big Wind narrated a loop over the Red Desert for Eastern Shoshone and Northern Arapaho elders, pointing out many of the cultural resources that hold special significance for more than a dozen Tribes with connections to the land. We sat down with Big Wind to hear about their work with EcoFlight and to learn what insights might be gained from taking to the skies.

[Interview edited for length and clarity.]

Images: EcoFlight

You’ve been sharing the values of the Red Desert with others for years now, but primarily with vehicle tours. How does EcoFlight fit into the work you’ve been doing there?

You could spend your entire life exploring the Red Desert — it’s that big of a landscape. When we leave Lander on a vehicle tour, whether we’re taking elected officials, Tribal people, WOC members, or donors, we know that it’s going to be an all-day trip, because a lot of these areas have long distances between them.

For people who don’t have that time or that mobility, I think it’s important that we try to work out a different tour for them. The intention for this year’s flight was to get some Tribal elders out there. We were able to get Reba Teran, an Eastern Shoshone elder and language teacher, and Mary Headley, a Northern Arapaho elder who teaches at the Arapaho Immersion School, to join us. And then they also brought their helpers with them because they have mobility issues. We’re trying to make sure that people who have mobility issues are still able to see these places, and have these discussions.

Tell us a little about your flight path — which parts of the Red Desert did you get to see?

We did two flights that morning, and we kind of did a loop of everything north of I-80. We left the Lander airport early that morning, flew over Red Canyon, flew to where the Great Divide Basin starts over by the Oregon Buttes and the Honeycomb Buttes. Then we moved down to the Killpecker Sand Dunes and Boar’s Tusk. From there, we flew over the White Mountain petroglyphs, checked out Steamboat Mountain, and came back up through the Wind River Range.

For someone like you, who has spent so much time out in the Red Desert, what’s it like to see it from the air?

I think the Red Desert is such a special place, because it has all of these different microhabitats within the area that it covers. You have the south side of the Winds, and the sand dunes, and areas of sagebrush. The plains, the desert, and the mountains meet in this area, but you don’t understand completely until you’re thousands of feet above it. I think the EcoFlight is a very powerful tool to be able to visualize how interconnected these habitats are to one another. It’s such a beautiful thing.

Could you share some of the highlights of the flight?

Being able to see the sand dunes moving in real time was a highlight. The Killpecker Sand Dunes are the largest living sand dune field in North America. When you’re on the ground, there’s always a steady wind, and you can kind of see the sand moving. But when you have a bird’s eye, you can actually see where they’re traveling across the landscape.

Also, there were also some pretty good migrations of antelope coming down off the mountains. Especially knowing how diminished those populations are after last winter, it was amazing to see just how resilient these animals are to be migrating across the land.

What was it like to share an aerial view of the Red Desert with the elders who joined you? And with other, younger Tribal members?

For both Reba and Mary, especially as culture and language teachers, I think it was important for them to be able to tell us the names of these places, and what those names meant, and why they were named a certain way. As an Arapaho person myself, being in a situation where Mary was educating other Arapahos who didn’t know those areas was really impactful. I have Shoshone family (although I’m not a Shoshone Tribal member), so being out there with Reba and hearing their stories, hearing their names, and why they’re named those things felt very impactful to me, too.

Over a dozen Tribes have relations with that landscape: The Shoshone, the Crow, the Cheyenne, and many others have stories about that land and their connection to that landscape. Some of those Tribes, their stories go back thousands of years. So I think it’s really important that not only are those stories told, but that those stories are shared with the next generation. Not only did we have the elders, but we had young people on both of those flights who were able to hear from the elders, and I think that made this very significant.

I think that’s interesting, because you’re in a role where you’re the tour guide. But you’re also learning from your elders, too.

Yeah. I think that’s a part of our culture, as Indigenous people. We look to our elders for guidance, we look to our elders to be able to tell stories. There’s places like the Birthing Rock, and the White Mountain petroglyphs, and all these other sacred sites that are found in the Red Desert. If we don’t relay this information, it will be lost. So it’s important to ensure that our elders are able to have the space to pass on these stories to young people.